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Philip Sargeaunt Chief Management Accountant St George's Healthcare NHS Trust Statement Given To The Employment Tribunal I have been asked to comment on the above as follows:- I worked in NHS Finance from October 1980 to December 2002. During that time I have worked at West Lambeth HA (St Thomas’s) , Bloomsbury HA and Hammersmith & Queen Charlotte’s SHA . I worked at St George’s hospital (formerly Wandsworth HA) in various management accounting roles from September 1989 to December 2002. I have known and worked with Ian Perkin for the last 13 years. My opinion, with the benefit of 22 years experience in NHS Finance, is that Ian Perkin is the best Director of Finance I have worked under in the N.H.S. My reasons for stating this are listed below:- Enthusiasm & Commitment to St George’s Ian led by example. He showed genuine passion and enthusiasm in undertaking his duties and a commitment to achieving the best possible deal possible for St George’s. Staff Management Ian was a firm but fair manager. He was willing to listen and consider points of view that may be contrary to his own. Ian actively encouraged all finance staff (not just the managers) to express views and ideas about how we could improve the way we worked and the service we gave to clients. Loyalty to Staff Ian was extremely loyal and supportive to his staff. This resulted in a reciprocation of loyalty which meant that at peak periods of workload (eg year end, budget setting, getting the payroll completed on time etc etc) people were prepared to put in the effort and additional hours required to achieve deadlines. My view is that this enabled the Finance Directorate to provide very good value for money (eg PFI work largely carried out by staff working in house working additional hours at no additional cost to the Trust). A few years ago I had the misfortune to be mugged and attacked on the way home from work. The next morning Ian , despite having a very heavy workload as D.O.F. was the first person to come to my office to check on my well being. I think this illustrates how Ian valued his staff. Honesty & Integrity I have never known Ian to be knowingly dishonest. He expresses his beliefs in an honest and robust manner and is not prepared to compromise on telling the truth for the purposes of political expediency. I think this quality is of particular importance in the Modern NHS where there seems to be increased pressure to avoid reporting ‘bad news’ up the line. I have been asked to comment on some specific points as follows:- Suggestions that Ian Perkin threatened managers with dismissal if overspend was not recovered. I have never heard Ian make this direct threat. He has said at meetings that if the Trust does not meet it’s financial duty to break even there is a danger of the C.E.O. , D.O.F. and other senior managers losing their jobs as a consequence. This is more a statement of the reality of the NHS than a direct threat. Suggestions that Finance Managers are not pro active members of the Service Centre Teams. It was true that Finance managers are geographically separated from the Service Centre Management Teams and are not directly managed by General managers. I agree that it is perfectly valid for the organisation to consider revised arrangements whereby finance managers are outposted to SC teams. There are both advantages and disadvantages (in terms of cost) with this approach. I am sure that the D.O.F. would not be against this proposal if demonstrated to be in the best interests of the Trust. I firmly believe that the Finance Managers were active members of the SC Teams attending SDU and SC meetings as appropriate and regularly meeting with budget holders and others to discuss a range of financial issues. We firmly believed in full involvement with our colleagues in general management and this was illustrated a few years ago when Fin Managers proposed attending the Business Mgrs Forum in order to promote a consistency of understanding of issues across the Trust. Positive Feedback from General manager on Finance Manager at Finance Meeting Held 28/8/02 I can confirm that at the monthly budgetary review meeting held on the above date that the General Manager for Clinical support, Suzie Bailey commented specifically on the excellent help and support she had received from her Finance Manager, Trupti Keegan, in preparing for the meeting. Suggestion that Service Centres had fundamental underlying concerns about the support that they had received from the Finance Directorate that I was not aware of. As Chief Management Accountant I would be very surprised if any concerns about the support given by Management Accountants to Service Centres had not been brought to my attention , either directly or via the Director of Finance or his deputy. The only concerns I did receive from General Managers related to the service provided to C & W and Neurosciences Service Centres where there were some problems arising due to the relative newness and inexperience of the new Finance Manager. This matter was raised in a sympathetic and constructive manner by the managers concerned and we responded by addressing this internally (by way of providing additional support to the team concerned). I did not receive any other complaints about the service we provided and indeed received very positive feedback about the performance and commitment of the Finance Managers. If there were concerns held that were not communicated to myself than it would have been very difficult for us to address those concerns. If these comments related to sections other than Management Accounts than it would be inappropriate for me to comment on specifics except to say that in my view my senior colleagues were always willing to respond to constructive criticism. In my experience attending SDUs and Service Centres I heard relatively little direct criticism of the Finance Directorate as a whole. Where concerns were raised it was the role of the Finance manager to communicate these directly to the officer concerned. Suggestion that ‘Finance Directorate had proved to be almost totally obstructive to the requests from managers and clinicians for Finance Managers for finance information that will enable them to make best service development decisions’ . Again this has never been brought to my attention. It would be useful to have examples where this has been the case. The collection of information for the production of 2002/3 SLAs was a muddled process which caused a great deal of frustration to many. However, it should be pointed out that this was a process not managed by Finance. Finance Managers worked very long hours and were extremely committed in supporting their service centres and directorates. It is frankly absurd to suggest that they would be deliberately obstructive and I would refute this statement 100%. Suggestion, that at the monthly review meetings with the Finance Director, that the financial problem is the Centres problem rather than a shared problem to be resolved with the help of the Finance Department. If a Trust is in Financial difficulty than it is necessary to take difficult executive action in order to bring the position under control. Finance managers do not have executive powers to implement cut backs in expenditure – these have to be made by General Managers and Service Centre Chairs .who are best placed to assess the impact on clinical services and the need to meet other targets. Finance Managers main role is to provide good up to date information to help aid inform decision making. I would of course, expect finance managers to be able to suggest ways of minimising expenditure, generating further income , and ensuring best value for money where ever possible. Phil Sargeaunt 2nd April 2003
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